History as a reminder

[Free Press Publisher Jim Santori]

Finished watching HBO's "John Adams" (http://www.hbo.com/films/johnadams/) -- based on McCullough's Pulitzer Prize-winning biography. What a sobering reminder of the courage, humanity, difficulty in breaking away from Great Britain and starting anew with so very little. But more importantly, contrasting the raw principled (and, yes, flawed) leadership of then to the theatrics/marketing of leadership today gives one pause.
First, how are the leaders of then contrasted with the leaders we elect today?
Secondly, holding our representatives accountable works only if we hold ourselves accountable to perform the work. How involved are we in watching, questioning, working with or advising our representatives -- local, state or national? Or do we just complain across the metaphorical backyard fence to others?
And lastly, with our present economic difficulties, will we see a rise in civic involvement? Or will the best of us be frightened by the task at hand?

[Dan Conner]

Finished watching HBO's "John Adams" (http://www.hbo.com/films/johnadams/) -- based on McCullough's Pulitzer Prize-winning biography. What a sobering reminder of the courage, humanity, difficulty in breaking away from Great Britain and starting anew with so very little. But more importantly, contrasting the raw principled (and, yes, flawed) leadership of then to the theatrics/marketing of leadership today gives one pause.
First, how are the leaders of then contrasted with the leaders we elect today?
Secondly, holding our representatives accountable works only if we hold ourselves accountable to perform the work. How involved are we in watching, questioning, working with or advising our representatives -- local, state or national? Or do we just complain across the metaphorical backyard fence to others?
And lastly, with our present economic difficulties, will we see a rise in civic involvement? Or will the best of us be frightened by the task at hand?

Jim, I think you raise an extremely important issue. I don't know if people will become more involved with civics, but I feel they are shirking citizenship if they don't. It perplexes me how one can complain about being a hapless victim of our government while they don't participate in it. About 4 months ago, I was discussing political candidates with someone on the street. That person was complaining about the poor quality of Presidential candidates, at the time. They acccused McCain of this and that and Obama of all sorts of things, and that they didn't intend to vote for either, in the election. I asked him about third party candidates and I could tell he didn't know anything about that. Then, I asked about our past Presidents, like Bush and Clinton. He said he didn't vote for any of them either. I asked why? He said he considers them all to be a bunch of crooks.

I don't know exactly how to characterize the conversation, except to say this person was extremely ignorant about the candidates and the issues. Also, apparently, too lazy to research them. While freedoms in our country includes most things in life, I don't believe it means the freedom to evade responsibility. I was actually angry that I heard this man complain about politicians and Presidents, but did nothing about it. I guess he viewed his political right as the right to complain, but do nothing about it. I told him that I didn't want to hear his complaints if he sloughed off his responsibility to do anything about it. If you don't vote, then be quiet because you have consented to the government you got.

Why are people sitting on the sidelines of politics but not participating? Government is the one institution that will probably touch everyone in our society, yet they don't want to participate? That's either extreme hypocrisy of laziness. I believe being active in politics is not just a good thing, it is our RESPONSIBILITY! We can not have an effective government voted or not voted in by ignorance and negativity.

I believe our responsibility doesn't end at just voting. People must endeavor to listen to and study the issues. In other words, know what you are talking about. Then, to get active and campaign for the candidate you feel best represents your views. We need to mitigate the affects of political campaigns that play to the ignoraces of the voting/non-voting public. It means more than just watching the TV. It means seeing how a candidate votes and compare that to the rhetoric. I believe this is an important if our country is to continue to prosper. I have long actively participated in politics and I have encouraged my children to do the same. IGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS!

[Bob Jentges]

Finished watching HBO's "John Adams" (http://www.hbo.com/films/johnadams/) -- based on McCullough's Pulitzer Prize-winning biography. What a sobering reminder of the courage, humanity, difficulty in breaking away from Great Britain and starting anew with so very little. But more importantly, contrasting the raw principled (and, yes, flawed) leadership of then to the theatrics/marketing of leadership today gives one pause.
First, how are the leaders of then contrasted with the leaders we elect today?
Secondly, holding our representatives accountable works only if we hold ourselves accountable to perform the work. How involved are we in watching, questioning, working with or advising our representatives -- local, state or national? Or do we just complain across the metaphorical backyard fence to others?
And lastly, with our present economic difficulties, will we see a rise in civic involvement? Or will the best of us be frightened by the task at hand?

Coincidentally I quoted John Adams in a post on a different thread earlier this morning.

The wisdom of our founding fathers is amazing to me. I think their effectivness has been pretty well established over time. The effectivness of our more contemporary leaders will not be decided until decades after they leave office and what they did or failed to do can be throughly evaluated by historians.

The way I see it those that are not involved in voting, "watching, questioning, working with or advising" our present day representatives (especially those who represent us locally, statewide, and/or nationally i.e. Senators and Representatives) forfit the privelage of complaining. Hindsight is always 20/20.

I also think we have already seen a "rise in civic involvement". Hopefully after we work our way through these "present economic difficulties" that civic invlovement will continue, and maybe even increase. We must not allow fear of being criticized for expressing our opinions keep us from actively participating in our government. Although it is sometimes said that most ideas are bad ideas, almost every idea is worthy of some consideration, and certainly elected officials do not have a lock on all the good ideas.

[Free Press Publisher Jim Santori]

It is an old adage that a country (city, state) gets the government it deserves. I've taken that to mean that if we (for whatever reason -- apathy, cynicism, laziness, etc.) leave "special interests" to elect our representatives then those special interests will be served primarily over us.
I too lose patience with those who complain but do not act on their complaints. But the chore ahead of us is to find ways to engage more and show that their involvement does make a difference.
While I was a reporter, I learned how little it takes to get a legislator's attention. One lawmaker said he received ten letters on a single subject and thought that was a mandate to act! Legislators crave feedback and involvement from citizens.
We have that opportunity with the public hearings on the budget. Let's see how the turnout is and what types of ideas are offered.

[Dan Conner]

It is an old adage that a country (city, state) gets the government it deserves. I've taken that to mean that if we (for whatever reason -- apathy, cynicism, laziness, etc.) leave "special interests" to elect our representatives then those special interests will be served primarily over us.
I too lose patience with those who complain but do not act on their complaints. But the chore ahead of us is to find ways to engage more and show that their involvement does make a difference.
While I was a reporter, I learned how little it takes to get a legislator's attention. One lawmaker said he received ten letters on a single subject and thought that was a mandate to act! Legislators crave feedback and involvement from citizens.
We have that opportunity with the public hearings on the budget. Let's see how the turnout is and what types of ideas are offered.

Jim, I totally agree with you. I hope people do become more involved. I am concerned about an ageless statement, made by someone before these great economic/political problems, being that they can tell when there are problems in the school district when they walk in for a school board meeting and the room is packed. They can gauge things are going fine when there are no, or only a few people from the public. I wish I knew why people are so uninvolved in their government. I suppose they would rather tend to their personal lives, but I don't think they realize how government is a part of their personal lives.

I think it would be a good idea to find out what other countries, with an active citizenry, do that enables that public involvement. Also, what that country does that encourages elevation of country over personal selfishness and greed. What was it in a prior time when JFK was able to get the public to accept the statement, "Ask NOT what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Sometimes I think a President would be booed off the stage for asking that now. Now people only seem to get involved when they are affected by something. What causes people to ACT with country first motives?

I definitely think we have to uiniversally return civics to the classroom. We need to offer more public forums on politics, with more of an opportunity for all to participate, not just the pundits - a true participative democracy. We need to listen to all sorts of ideas, before we formulate our own. We needs to think more selflessly, not selfishly.

[Liz Ratcliff]

All great posts! I think the lack of involvement has to do with the lack of education given to civics. That, coupled with the corporate monopoly of influence (which makes the common person feel hopeless or that their opinion doesn't matter) and all of the material and media distractions that have pervaded our "pop" culture. It is kind of like the perfect storm. It has taken the crisis that we are in for many to wake up and seek information and change on issues that have an enormous impact on all of our lives. Better late than never I suppose, but we, as a country really need to provide more civic education and encourage debate and the sharing of ideas. It seems so many are afraid to stick their neck out for what they believe.

[Bob Jentges]

All great posts! I think the lack of involvement has to do with the lack of education given to civics. That, coupled with the corporate monopoly of influence (which makes the common person feel hopeless or that their opinion doesn't matter) and all of the material and media distractions that have pervaded our "pop" culture. It is kind of like the perfect storm. It has taken the crisis that we are in for many to wake up and seek information and change on issues that have an enormous impact on all of our lives. Better late than never I suppose, but we, as a country really need to provide more civic education and encourage debate and the sharing of ideas. It seems so many are afraid to stick their neck out for what they believe.

Liz, I hope your above quote sets a record for the most visited so far! Beyond that I hope those that read it will act on your suggestions, including getting involved.

My experience has been that often the best ideas come from the most unexpected people/places. Maybe the best way to encourage more ideas from those people/places is to show respect for who/where those ideas come from. Even if the idea is not totally acceptable there is probably something in it that can be built from. On the other hand we need to beware of self described "experts" and/or bullies who try to dismiss ideas of others out-of-hand and force all their ideas on us.

I like your idea of providing more civic education and suggest if it does not now, it probably should begin in middle school. Part of that education should be that much more can be accomplished through civil debate than contentious arguement.

Finally, I think that that most of our elected officials are approachable as far as ideas are concerned, if we try. By approachable I do not mean we should expect they impliment everything we suggest, because we are a representative democracy, but they should at least consider it's merits. If we find otherwise maybe we should give strong consideration as to whether they merit our vote next election.

[Dan Conner]

I think our nation was blessed in the beginning with many great leaders that had a vision of democracy and freedom. They were there during the struggle and contemplated the supreme sacrifice, if the revolution failed. Many many years have passed and I think many of us have forgotten the vision and sacrifice. There are too many who want to readily go to war, as long as they don't have to fight in it.

The many ideas and tenets of thue founding fathers almost totally dealth with individual freedoms and responsiblities. The Bill of Rights deals almost totally with rights of the individual. The rest of the amendments and the original Constitution almost totally deal with iindivduals in relationship to government. Over the 200+ years, it seems so much of that great blueprint has been corrupted byt the rights of business and corporations, not expressly given rights in the Constitution.

I think our country has to get back to the values that we are a country of people with common purpose and common values. Unfortunately, our society is being fragmented by people focusing on differences instead of agreement. It requires great effort to keep us together, but none to fall apart. We survived the Civil War, but only after a great cost - our greatest proportional cost. Hopefully, we will have learned from that. Despite the energy required, the strength of our country is determined by our ability to work together. We are weak, if we are divided. Working together requires selflessness, sharing, and an empathy for others, not greed, selfishness, and callousness.

[Liz Ratcliff]

This is a great thread, and a great place to find some common ground. One of my favorite quotes by Thomas Jefferson - "But every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. We have been called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists."

Wouldn't it be great if we could all work together for our common good?

[Bob Jentges]

This is a great thread, and a great place to find some common ground. One of my favorite quotes by Thomas Jefferson - "But every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. We have been called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists."

Wouldn't it be great if we could all work together for our common good?

Yes it would, Liz! And I think we can if we as individuals and as groups take inventory of ourselves and assess if we might have drifted too far (Right or Left) from the principles on which our country was founded. If we have, it is up to "We the prople..." to make the necessary corrections.

[Dan Conner]

Yes it would, Liz! And I think we can if we as individuals and as groups take inventory of ourselves and assess if we might have drifted too far (Right or Left) from the principles on which our country was founded. If we have, it is up to "We the prople..." to make the necessary corrections.

I agree. I think it would be beneficial if you read The Free Press front page article in yesterday's (3/12/09) paper about the U.S. having an inferior health care system. Companies now lobby for improvement because of the enormous cost and flagging quality of care, but when can we, as "caring" people acknowledge the human rights implications of health care. Without it, we are "third world." There is no dispute about the necessity of corrections. Even the very conservative people are conceding change is necessary. However, the difficult question is change to what? I would direct you to the health care thread to my last comments about The Free Press front page story on the U.S getting the "short end" on health care value.

[Bob Jentges]

I agree. I think it would be beneficial if you read The Free Press front page article in yesterday's (3/12/09) paper about the U.S. having an inferior health care system. Companies now lobby for improvement because of the enormous cost and flagging quality of care, but when can we, as "caring" people acknowledge the human rights implications of health care. Without it, we are "third world." There is no dispute about the necessity of corrections. Even the very conservative people are conceding change is necessary. However, the difficult question is change to what? I would direct you to the health care thread to my last comments about The Free Press front page story on the U.S getting the "short end" on health care value.

I did read the article yesterday as well as your post in the health care thread this morning, and in fact posted a comment in that thread before I saw your above "Quote".

[Dan Conner]

I did read the article yesterday as well as your post in the health care thread this morning, and in fact posted a comment in that thread before I saw your above "Quote".

I read your comments and left comment.