Dick Cheney and the CIA

[Dan Conner]

There are new reports in the media that Dick Cheney might have supervised a CIA assassination squad that killed selected leaders in foreign countries without the knowledge of the ambassador or the Congress. Do you think this is the proper role of the executive branch?

[Liz Ratcliff]

Dick Cheney has no soul... he is a sickened megalomaniac and I hope someday he is served a huge helping of justice.

[Bob Jentges]

There are new reports in the media that Dick Cheney might have supervised a CIA assassination squad that killed selected leaders in foreign countries without the knowledge of the ambassador or the Congress. Do you think this is the proper role of the executive branch?

Without knowing the veracity of the "...new reports in the media...", in answer to the question: No, I do not consider assination of foreign leaders "...the proper role of the executive branch."!

[Dan Conner]

Without knowing the veracity of the "...new reports in the media...", in answer to the question: No, I do not consider assination of foreign leaders "...the proper role of the executive branch."!Great! Neither do I. When people worry about their freedoms being abridged, they better worry about secret assassination squads. Who knows, it might be our turn tomorrow. It's too bad that people worry about abridging rights when it comes to a healthcare system intended to give all people proper healthcare, but we don't worry about unwarranted spying and murdering by the Government?

[Bob Jentges]

This thread seems to be critical of Dick Cheney, maybe justifiably so if he had anything to do with the allegation, unproven as yet I think, of CIA "assination" squads.

My reason for this post is because this morning I read that President Obama has extended Cheney's Secret Service protection. The reason for the extension was not given. Since Vice Presidents typically do not get Secret Service protection after leaving office, and if the threats were from individuals or groups of people that are U.S citizens, I think it demonstrates that some in our society have allowed emotion to control their politics. They have allowed their partisian policy disagreements with Cheney to evolve through personal dislike into hatred. Hatred is not healthy in almost any aspect of life.

[Dan Conner]

This thread seems to be critical of Dick Cheney, maybe justifiably so if he had anything to do with the allegation, unproven as yet I think, of CIA "assination" squads.

My reason for this post is because this morning I read that President Obama has extended Cheney's Secret Service protection. The reason for the extension was not given. Since Vice Presidents typically do not get Secret Service protection after leaving office, and if the threats were from individuals or groups of people that are U.S citizens, I think it demonstrates that some in our society have allowed emotion to control their politics. They have allowed their partisian policy disagreements with Cheney to evolve through personal dislike into hatred. Hatred is not healthy in almost any aspect of life.I certainly agree with that. I understand there have already been several attempts to kill Obama. Luckily, all have been foiled. Some of the most serious threats to our country come in the form of sick zealots. Oklahoma City is but one incident. There have been more. There are too many people filled with hate for others.

[Dan Conner]

Here's a link about two prominent ex-republicans criticizing the GOP's lack of oversight and control during the GW Bush administration. Where were they 7 years ago?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/former-gop-congressmen-ac_n_235976.html

[Mary Peterson]

I think you are out of touch with reality. Look at Obama & see the group of people that he has on his (Russian) style "czar" list. Now is the time to be afraid for our country if Obama is not impeached. I said after he was in office for three months that he should be impeached--every move he has made since that time has confirmed my first impression of him. Also, they need to quit attacking the "W" minority. And he needs to NOT try to influence school children with the quality of life that he & his czars & Lew Ayers, & his preacher that he didn't hear for 20 years etc.. He needs to LISTEN to the American people. I do not believe he was elected, I believe he got it by cheating, the same way that Al Franken got in. Obama is so inept that it would be funny if he were not the President of a "FREE COUNTRY". Every day it is more evident how he is trying to destroy our FREEDOM from within. The man talks for one hour & says the same thing over & over & over, ad nausem. Please, lets get Obama, Pelosi, Reid, & last but not least, the joker, Al Franken out of our government positions. He is making a joke of "We the people, for the people." He won't even listen to us. He is a polluter of our way of life. If you want to live by Russian rules, by all means - go to Russia & live. Please

[Mary Peterson]

You & I have no clue as to what is true & what isn't. We do not have the security clearance to KNOW what is going on. I have a nephew who is with the NSA. If he is called & doesn't answer his phone, a SWAT team is sent to his house. He is not allowed to talk about what he does. This I do know to be true. All we get -unless we watch a little Fox News, is the garbage Obama wants us to get. I am tired of him & his 2-bit Chicago bullies. He will force his will upon us because he can. Period. He does not care about you, or me, or the American people. He cares about getting his revenge as I believe he is racist in the worst way. Time will tell. My only comfort, & it is enough, is that the Holy Bible says that "no one will be in power without God allowing it." And if for some reason God has allowed this egotistical, inept person to be president of my country, I will wait & see what God has in store for us. And I believe it will be for good in the end.

[Dan Conner]

I think you are out of touch with reality. Look at Obama & see the group of people that he has on his (Russian) style "czar" list. Now is the time to be afraid for our country if Obama is not impeached. I said after he was in office for three months that he should be impeached--every move he has made since that time has confirmed my first impression of him. Also, they need to quit attacking the "W" minority. And he needs to NOT try to influence school children with the quality of life that he & his czars & Lew Ayers, & his preacher that he didn't hear for 20 years etc.. He needs to LISTEN to the American people. I do not believe he was elected, I believe he got it by cheating, the same way that Al Franken got in. Obama is so inept that it would be funny if he were not the President of a "FREE COUNTRY". Every day it is more evident how he is trying to destroy our FREEDOM from within. The man talks for one hour & says the same thing over & over & over, ad nausem. Please, lets get Obama, Pelosi, Reid, & last but not least, the joker, Al Franken out of our government positions. He is making a joke of "We the people, for the people." He won't even listen to us. He is a polluter of our way of life. If you want to live by Russian rules, by all means - go to Russia & live. Please I think you acting quite paranoid and you are filled with unjustifiable hate. That's too bad. Other than reading a tirade of hate and name-calling, I didn't read anything that supports your wild contentions. I would guess you spend all your time listening to Fox News, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do suggest that you become more well-rounded and listen to the other networks. No matter what I suggest you should find a way to control your fear and hate, it isn't a very appealing quality.

[Dan Conner]

You & I have no clue as to what is true & what isn't. We do not have the security clearance to KNOW what is going on. I have a nephew who is with the NSA. If he is called & doesn't answer his phone, a SWAT team is sent to his house. He is not allowed to talk about what he does. This I do know to be true. All we get -unless we watch a little Fox News, is the garbage Obama wants us to get. I am tired of him & his 2-bit Chicago bullies. He will force his will upon us because he can. Period. He does not care about you, or me, or the American people. He cares about getting his revenge as I believe he is racist in the worst way. Time will tell. My only comfort, & it is enough, is that the Holy Bible says that "no one will be in power without God allowing it." And if for some reason God has allowed this egotistical, inept person to be president of my country, I will wait & see what God has in store for us. And I believe it will be for good in the end.I do know that Dick Cheney isn't truthful. All that he has contended to justify an invasion of Iraq was false. What is it that Bush said, "Fool me once and shame on you...fool me twice and ...and...well, just don't fool me again."

[Bob Jentges]

The way I see it there are more important things to worry about than Dick Cheney (Van Jones for one), but...
http:www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.cheney04,0,2633194

[Mary Peterson]

You are out of touch with reality. Maybe you should listen to Fox news, when a man surrounds himself with evil people, he shows who he is. His czars are evil. Look them up in ANY book. Then ask God to open your eyes & heart to the truth, & see what you come up with.

[Mary Peterson]

I think you are watching too much David Letterman. There really are more reliable sources Dan.

[Bob Jentges]

Mary, I find it ironic that none of the three major TV networks or the major print media sources like the NYT, Washington Post, etc., even mentioned the Van Jones affair until after his resignation.

Perhaps the so-called main stream media are not capabale of investigative reporting, just like the Obama White House seems incapable of proper vetting of their appointees. Since I am not a conspiracy theorist I will give the benefit of doubt and chalk this one up to incompetence.

But whatever the reason for the failing, my suggestion is the MSM and White House and others might be well served to tune into FNC occassionally to find out what is happening.

[Mary Peterson]

They do NOT care. Obama is going to do what he wants to do & nobody is going to stop him. He, Nancy Pelosi, & Reid, & I think that he is their "puppet". We just have to wait this time out & then get back to 'reality', when the power in D.C. switches again. And it will. And I have a feeling that this is the only way it was going to happen. So, cheer up, help is on the way. I think Obama, Michelle, Pelosi, Reid, Franken, & their sort are evil people. But I believe true good things are going to happen because of all of this. I also do not like the way this newspaper panel is going as it is not as I imagined it to be. If I wanted to trade insults with people like Dan, I would not bother doing it on the computer. Am I wrong, or wasn't Medicare full of extra money until they started giving it to those who were not entitled to it? I would really like to take the D.C.'s checkbook away by having all rational Americans stop paying taxes. If they didn't have our money, they could do nothing. It may come to that or something just as drastic. It is not going to keep on this way. It can't.

[Mary Peterson]

I think you watch too much David Letterman. Time will tell. Argue with that one.

[Chad Sietsema]

Now is the time to be afraid for our country if Obama is not impeached. I said after he was in office for three months that he should be impeached--every move he has made since that time has confirmed my first impression of him.

I do not believe he was elected, I believe he got it by cheating, the same way that Al Franken got in.

Hello, everyone. I received my password for this forum and I am very much looking forward to participating here. My history in the Mankato area was for a five year period about twenty years ago. Mary, I found the above statements interesting. Your dislike of President Obama, Al Franken, Nancy Pelosi, etc. are quite clear. But I'd like to ask you to expand on the above comments, if you wouldn't mind. You call for President Obama's impeachment. On what grounds would he be impeached? Obviously, if dislike of a sitting president were enough for impeachment, not a single one would have enjoyed a full term in in office;) And then there's the "cheating" you refer to for both, the election of President Obama and Senator Franken. I watched the election, live, last November on CNN. The contest, for lack of a better word, seemed to be over rather quickly. How, then, is it that the president was elected by cheating? As to Senator Franken, election rules dictated a recount due to the closeness of the vote count. Election officials worked very hard to determine who the true winner was - or so I thought. In what manner was there cheating in the senatorial race?

Mary further wrote:
I will wait & see what God has in store for us. And I believe it will be for good in the end.

And I believe the same. Patience is a virtue, and while I believe that God wants good things for His people, my belief and hope is that my president wants good things for his country as well.

[Dan Conner]

Hello, everyone. I received my password for this forum and I am very much looking forward to participating here. My history in the Mankato area was for a five year period about twenty years ago. Mary, I found the above statements interesting. Your dislike of President Obama, Al Franken, Nancy Pelosi, etc. are quite clear. But I'd like to ask you to expand on the above comments, if you wouldn't mind. You call for President Obama's impeachment. On what grounds would he be impeached? Obviously, if dislike of a sitting president were enough for impeachment, not a single one would have enjoyed a full term in in office;) And then there's the "cheating" you refer to for both, the election of President Obama and Senator Franken. I watched the election, live, last November on CNN. The contest, for lack of a better word, seemed to be over rather quickly. How, then, is it that the president was elected by cheating? As to Senator Franken, election rules dictated a recount due to the closeness of the vote count. Election officials worked very hard to determine who the true winner was - or so I thought. In what manner was there cheating in the senatorial race?

Mary further wrote:


And I believe the same. Patience is a virtue, and while I believe that God wants good things for His people, my belief and hope is that my president wants good things for his country as well.

Right on Chad!

[Dennis Mikkelson]

the Tucson Star paper printed 2 counties of minnesota had more votes than legal voters

[Bob Jentges]

the Tucson Star paper printed 2 counties of minnesota had more votes than legal voters

If I recall correctly Coleman won the election after the first count, Franken won the recount and the court upheld the validity of the recount. But I also read an article in the Mpls Star Tribune last week that suggested Franken's lawyers "outsmarted" Coleman's lawyers. The count was so close I doubt we will ever know who actually received the most legitimate votes.

The way I see it that seems to beg for some sort of election reform. Picture ID might help to limit fraud. But I do not favor making it easier for people to vote because I am not certain that brings out more informed voters, only more numbers who are often urged to go to the polls (or taken to the polls) by advocacy groups and have little understanding of the actual issues.

[Chad Sietsema]

If I recall correctly Coleman won the election after the first count, Franken won the recount and the court upheld the validity of the recount. But I also read an article in the Mpls Star Tribune last week that suggested Franken's lawyers "outsmarted" Coleman's lawyers. The count was so close I doubt we will ever know who actually received the most legitimate votes.

The way I see it that seems to beg for some sort of election reform. Picture ID might help to limit fraud. But I do not favor making it easier for people to vote because I am not certain that brings out more informed voters, only more numbers who are often urged to go to the polls (or taken to the polls) by advocacy groups and have little understanding of the actual issues.

Yes, you're correct. Coleman had won the election according to the original count. The laws of the state of Minnesota require a recount if the margin of difference is 0.5% or less. The Coleman/Franken difference was less than 1/50th of that margin. If you likened it to a 100 meter dash, the difference between 1st and 2nd place would have been about 1/3 of an inch. Now throw in having to determine what constitutes a "legitimate" vote, and you certainly do have quite a mess on your hands. My belief is that the election officials working the recount wanted the results to be as accurate as possible, probably even more than the average Minnesotan did. Once they knew what the exact rules were for determining a legitimate vote, they worked tirelessly to get the results out. In the end, Franken was certified the winner, and that's what we're left with for good or ill.

[Free Press Editor Joe Spear]

Dennis
Without having read the Tuscon article, I'm not sure what it addressed. I know that the reason any given precinct can have more ballots than voters is that election judges are required to make a "duplicate" ballot for those that will not go through the vote-counting machine. This occurs in almost every precinct. The issue became that some duplicates and/or originals were not accounted for, and that the attorneys questioned the rules on how to label the duplicates and where to put them.

[Free Press Editor Joe Spear]

Bob
I believe Gov.Pawlenty vetoed what many thought was pretty bipartisan election reform. Some of it was just common sense, like not requiring votes to be driven from court houses to each precinct for counting. But I suppose politics tied this up somehow, possible the picture I.D. issue.

[Bob Jentges]

Bob
I believe Gov.Pawlenty vetoed what many thought was pretty bipartisan election reform. Some of it was just common sense, like not requiring votes to be driven from court houses to each precinct for counting. But I suppose politics tied this up somehow, possible the picture I.D. issue.

It has been a while since I looked at this issue, but I think you might be correct in that one of the major reasons for Pawlenty's veto of the Omnibus Bill was the photo I.D. issue. Republicans favored photo I.D., the DFL did not.

Personally I favor photo I.D. because people need to present same for issues not nearly as important as voting eg. cashing a check. But if that was the only reason for the veto (I do not know that) I question the veto. On the other hand if the DFL knew the bill would be vetoed if it did not include photo I,D. I question why they did not include it in their bill.

As usual, when legislation fails there is usually some blame on both sides.

[Dan Conner]

It has been a while since I looked at this issue, but I think you might be correct in that one of the major reasons for Pawlenty's veto of the Omnibus Bill was the photo I.D. issue. Republicans favored photo I.D., the DFL did not.

Personally I favor photo I.D. because people need to present same for issues not nearly as important as voting eg. cashing a check. But if that was the only reason for the veto (I do not know that) I question the veto. On the other hand if the DFL knew the bill would be vetoed if it did not include photo I,D. I question why they did not include it in their bill.

As usual, when legislation fails there is usually some blame on both sides.I am a little puzzled about why we want to add so much to the bureaucracy by adding a huge photo ID workload to State. That means that everyone will probably also need to submit BC's that didn't before. That will cost a lot of money. Then, if you make it a condition, it becomes extremely important to keep it up-to-date. Lots more new State employees there.

[Bob Jentges]

I am a little puzzled about why we want to add so much to the bureaucracy by adding a huge photo ID workload to State. That means that everyone will probably also need to submit BC's that didn't before. That will cost a lot of money. Then, if you make it a condition, it becomes extremely important to keep it up-to-date. Lots more new State employees there.

As I said in a previous post, a photo ID would not have been a deal breaker for me one way or the other. However, I think most Minnesota citizens of voting age have a drivers license (including a photo) which should limit the number of voters that need to get a seperate photo ID.

ACORN registered about 43,000 voters in Minnesota in the last election cycle. I do not know how many of them actually voted, who they voted for, or if any of their votes involved fraud. But based on the reputation ACORN has now there is reason to be suspect. I think it is naive to expect there was no voter fraud in Minnesota, and I would not be surprised to learn it involved a number of politicial parties.

Also as I said in a previous post, I do not favor election reform that makes it easier for people to vote. But maybe, just maybe requiring a photo ID would have eliminated a miniscule percentage of voter fraud or attempted voter fraud, regardless of who the fraudulant vote would have gone to. Maybe there would have been no need for a recount in the first place, regardless of who won.

For those interested in saving money, recounts are expensive.

[Free Press Editor Joe Spear]

Anyone want to start a new thread on voting fraud or something else? This one seems to have strayed from original heading "Dick Cheney and CIA"

[Bob Jentges]

Anyone want to start a new thread on voting fraud or something else? This one seems to have strayed from original heading "Dick Cheney and CIA"

You are correct. This discussion "strayed" from the origional thread a number of posts back. I do not plan to start a new thread to fit the stray, but also do not intend to comment further on voter fraud in this thread either.

I am not real interested in commenting on "Dick Cheney and the CIA" either.

[Dan Conner]

As I said in a previous post, a photo ID would not have been a deal breaker for me one way or the other. However, I think most Minnesota citizens of voting age have a drivers license (including a photo) which should limit the number of voters that need to get a seperate photo ID.

ACORN registered about 43,000 voters in Minnesota in the last election cycle. I do not know how many of them actually voted, who they voted for, or if any of their votes involved fraud. But based on the reputation ACORN has now there is reason to be suspect. I think it is naive to expect there was no voter fraud in Minnesota, and I would not be surprised to learn it involved a number of politicial parties.

Also as I said in a previous post, I do not favor election reform that makes it easier for people to vote. But maybe, just maybe requiring a photo ID would have eliminated a miniscule percentage of voter fraud or attempted voter fraud, regardless of who the fraudulant vote would have gone to. Maybe there would have been no need for a recount in the first place, regardless of who won.

For those interested in saving money, recounts are expensive.I think you are really lookkng for an extremely expensive solution for no problem here. If I remember correctly, the of the Coleman/Franken election took a total swing of about 300 votes in the recount. That's a tiny fraction of 1%. Hardly enough to justify millions and millions on a ID system, especially in light of slim budgets. I was very proud of the integrity of the Minnesota voting system. It offered plenty of protection for dissatisfied politicians and ensured an accurate count, with plenty of appeal rights. A photo ID is killing a mosquito with a hammer.

[Dennis Mikkelson]

Every one should have some form of ID to vote.70% of the legal voters have a drivers lie. and rest can get an ID card for $18 which system is in place already and does not need more employees.People need ID for check cashing,getting prescriptions filled and other uses.Students and service members can vote in other precincts than their ID states but the election judge needs to verify the voters age and address which is not being done totally.Every other voter if he votes in the wrong precincts must with in 30 days get a new lie. or a new ID card of a address with in the precinct he voted in. Some of the election problems we are having would be cured. The system is in place, the election judges are not checking ID's and informing the state and voter of the law.

[Dan Conner]

Every one should have some form of ID to vote.70% of the legal voters have a drivers lie. and rest can get an ID card for $18 which system is in place already and does not need more employees.People need ID for check cashing,getting prescriptions filled and other uses.Students and service members can vote in other precincts than their ID states but the election judge needs to verify the voters age and address which is not being done totally.Every other voter if he votes in the wrong precincts must with in 30 days get a new lie. or a new ID card of a address with in the precinct he voted in. Some of the election problems we are having would be cured. The system is in place, the election judges are not checking ID's and informing the state and voter of the law.Boy, I think you need to consult current Minnesota State Law pertaining to voter registration. It already stipulates everything you require above. You are debating nothing here. I suggest you refer to the State of Minnesota website for voters registration requirements.

http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=204

I would have thought this was common knowledge for people who have already registered. This is a non-issue.

[Dan Conner]

Every one should have some form of ID to vote.70% of the legal voters have a drivers lie. and rest can get an ID card for $18 which system is in place already and does not need more employees.People need ID for check cashing,getting prescriptions filled and other uses.Students and service members can vote in other precincts than their ID states but the election judge needs to verify the voters age and address which is not being done totally.Every other voter if he votes in the wrong precincts must with in 30 days get a new lie. or a new ID card of a address with in the precinct he voted in. Some of the election problems we are having would be cured. The system is in place, the election judges are not checking ID's and informing the state and voter of the law.In addition, the Supreme Court has previously ruled that issues like "poll tax" and other processes requiring expenses for people of limited income is unconstitutional because it interferes with ones right to vote. Also, the process is very expensive because keeping addresses and other information current on licenses/ID's costs lots of money, either for the people or the taxpayer.

Besides, this information is often obtained at the polling place, where one can register to vote. You seem to be looking for a solution where there is no problem.

We just had our first very very close statewide election in many many years. This can happen in any system you devise. Even with a "perfect system" such as you recommend, a thorough and tedious recount is called for. Face it, Coleman lost fair and square. Get over it.

[Bob Jentges]

This "Dick Cheney and the CIA" thread has drifted some, so I will try to move it back a little closer to topic by linking an article titled: "Newsmax/Zogby Poll:Nearly Half of Americans Believe Nation 'Less Safe" under Obama."

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/poll-terrorism-nation-less/2010/03/10/id/352283